Movies: They're Pretty Good!
Movies: They're Pretty Good!
The Nightmare Before Christmas (1993)
Get ready to venture into the magical worlds of Halloween Town and Christmas Town, as we dive deep into Tim Burton's iconic film, "The Nightmare Before Christmas" on its 30th anniversary. Your host Travis, along with special guest, Tyler, are here to guide you through the film's origins, its quirky characters, and its unforgettable songs. We also uncover the surprising revelation that despite its signature Burtonesque style, Tim Burton didn't actually direct this film!
Our discussion takes you from the morning after Halloween in Halloween Town, where the literal two-faced mayor's obsession with the holiday never takes a break, to the enchanting Christmas Town, discovered by our hero, Jack Skellington. We explore the captivating festive world through Jack's eyes and his delightful song "What's This?" Meanwhile, in Halloween Town, Sally's unsavory attempts to poison Dr. Finkelstein continue as the town goes on a search for their missing Pumpkin King. We relate all these to your favorite references in the movie and the inspiration behind the iconic songs.
As we wrap up, we pay tribute to the innovative stop-motion animation techniques that brought "The Nightmare Before Christmas" to life. We marvel at the original creatures designed by Tim Burton himself, and delve into the memorable town meeting scene where the idea of Christmas is introduced to the Halloween-themed townspeople. Join us as we share our experiences watching the 3D version of the movie in theaters and discuss the thrilling climax of the movie. It's all about the rescue of Santa and Sally, and how the story emphasizes the importance of following the rules of a fantasy world. So tune in, sit back, and immerse yourself in the enchanting blend of Halloween and Christmas that "The Nightmare Before Christmas" offers.
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Hello and welcome to another episode of Movies, colon. They're pretty good. I'm your host, Travis Dudding, and today I'm joined by, once again, my brother, Tyler. Want to say hi?
Tyler:Hey everybody and glad to be here. And boy, it's a calamity ever so great. What's occurred when two holidays met by mistake?
Travis:Yep, and if that didn't clue you or the title of the episode didn't clue you in, we're talking about Nightmare Before Christmas today, which Tyler has the DVD copy that we got, when?
Tyler:This is the 2008 copy, the 15th anniversary copy. We used to have the early 2000s copy that had the Touchstone logo version of the movie.
Travis:Yes, and we also had it on VHS and everything. We're in our 30s, we had a lot of stuff like that. And speaking of being in our 30s, this movie turned 30 this year, right?
Tyler:Yep! So the genesis of Nightmare Before Christmas is. Tim Burton actually started out as one of the new batch of animators at Disney after Don Bluth left to direct his own animation studio and he did some animation on the character of Vixey, the Sandy Duncan character in Fox the Hound, and did some concept touches for this little movie called the Black Cauldron, which somehow didn't do well.
Travis:Yeah, that's one of Disney's bigger bombs, right? And very obscure. Not a lot of people have seen that one. That's like, I think, besides the newest two, Wish and Strange World, I think the only Walt Disney animation studio film I haven't seen.
Tyler:Yeah, and to add insult to injury, it lost to the Care Bears movie. Yeah, but Tim Burton actually did two shorts while at Disney. One was Vincent.
Travis:And that was a stop motion, right?
Tyler:Yes, Okay, and it's German expressionists combined with Dr Seuss and narrated by Vincent Price himself.
Travis:Yes, hence the name, Vincent.
Tyler:Yeah, and to all you die hard Disney fans. You know him as the voice of the Professor Ratigan from the Great Mouse Detective and he did the narration for this attraction over in Europe called Phantom Manor.
Travis:And for those not well versed in Disney Park knowledge, what is Phantom Manor to the more? What would people know it
Tyler:it's basically France's equivalent to the Haunted Mansion yes, which correlates with today's movie in a weird way If you've been to the park since 2001.
Travis:Yeah. So all right, let's get right into it. We're talking about Tim Burton's the Nightmare Before Christmas, released in 1993. Do you know what month or date it came out?
Tyler:I think it came out October of 1993. It's based. I need to see why some people consider this somewhat of a sleeper hit.
Travis:Yeah, because did it do well financially in the box office, or was it more of like a cult hit upon VHS release?
Tyler:I think it became a cult hit on VHS release, but it wasn't, and as the days go by the popularity of it grew to the point where you cannot enter a hot topic without seeing Nightmare Before Christmas merch.
Travis:Yeah, big hit with Disney Goths for sure. But one thing I wanted to note before we get started in the actual movie is that it's interesting that this is probably one of the most well known Like. When people think Tim Burton, they think Nightmare Before Christmas and people know Tim Burton as a director, but he did not direct this one.
Tyler:The directing duties go to Henry Selick, because Tim Burton was busy doing Batman Returns and pre-production of Ed Wood. Yes correct.
Travis:Alright, so should we get right into it.
Tyler:Absolutely.
Travis:Alright. So right at the beginning of the movie we're opening on some narration. Who's doing the narration? Is it Danny Elfman or someone else?
Tyler:It's Edward Ivory.
Travis:Okay, yes, but Danny Elfman on the soundtrack does the narration right.
Tyler:No, you're thinking of Nightmare Revisited. The soundtrack was done by Captain Picard himself. Patrick Stewart, yes, you're right.
Travis:I'm more of what I would listen to is usually the Nightmare Revisited soundtrack. That's where they got a bunch of different bands of different styles of music to do covers of the Nightmare Before Christmas songs, and I'll talk a little bit about each of those as we get into the actual songs in the movie. So, like I said, we've got some narration coming in. Tyler kind of said a little bit of what that sounds like in the beginning of the episode and we open on this grove of trees and there's a circle in the middle of them and each of the trees has a symbol of a different holiday. And of course, we're starting out in Halloween Town, because this movie is basically, if you don't know I doubt anyone doesn't know, but if you don't know it's a combination of Halloween and Christmas, basically, where two holidays collide, like you said.
Tyler:Yeah, which is the emphasis of Haunted Mansion. Holiday which is a seasonal overlay of Disneyland's version of the Haunted Mansion, and to our viewers and our listeners in Japan you might know it as Haunted Mansion Holiday Nightmare.
Travis:Ah, so that gave it a little bit of a different name, but that's the only other park besides Disneyland California that does Haunted Mansion Holiday, correct?
Tyler:Yes, they planned on doing it in Florida, but Haunted Mansion Holiday Nightmare in Tokyo gives you a taste of what could have been the Florida's version.
Travis:Yeah, all right. So as soon as we go through that jack-o-lantern door in the tree we get the first song of the movie. This is a musical, by the way. This is Halloween and great song. It's great in the movie. Great cover by Marilyn Manson on the Nightmare, revisited soundtrack. But and I think a few other bands have done, I think even Panic at the Disco did a this is Halloween for one of the fireworks shows at Disneyland, something like that. But that one's kind of hard to find. But the yeah, great song and basically the purpose of the song is to kind of visually introduce each of the residents of Halloween Town, kind of. We kind of get a look at what everyone's deal is and, yeah, anything you want to add on that song.
Tyler:Yeah, it's pretty catchy, especially around the Halloween season. And speaking of the fireworks shows at Disneyland, it actually originated at Disney World as Hollow Wishes and it was copied over into Disneyland as the Halloween spectacular. And boy that how. The few times we saw that Halloween fireworks show, they really did a cool job adding our hero and one character in particular that we get to later is shown flying above the castle.
Travis:And who is that? It's Zero. Yes, that's Jack's ghost dog with the conveniently red glowing nose, just like another famous holiday character.
Tyler:And oddly enough, the Zero's nose is in the shape of a little jack-o'-lantern.
Travis:Is it?
Tyler:Yeah.
Travis:I never noticed that.
Tyler:Yeah, because watching it. I don't like the coming from people who watch it on the CRT TVs.
Travis:Yeah, you can't get any of those little details on those old CRTs. Yeah.
Travis:Yep, so we get the whole, we get everyone introduced in that song. At the end of it Everyone's just praising Jack, like oh, we did it, like you're the best, like thanks for making Halloween great again. And. But we see like, as he kind of leaves away from the crowd that they're like that he's kind of bored with Halloween and he's like kind of down in the dumps about it and then just like, oh, every year it's the same and everything like that. And that leads us right into our next song Jack's lament, jack's lament. But before we get to that song, one thing to note the next most important character after Jack himself is Sally, and we see her kind of like off to the side while everything's happening and she's kind of watched everything from afar. But then motorized, wheelchair bound, dr Finkelstein comes up and and guess what?
Tyler:You might recognize the voice. It's none other than the late great William Hickey. Yes. That you might recognize as Uncle Lewis from National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.
Travis:Yes, he is the one who ignites the Christmas tree with the cigar. And, yeah, and it gets blown away by the sewage gas explosion.
Tyler:Yeah, because of a cousin Eddie.
Travis:Yeah, yeah, he was dumping the sewage from the RV in there.
Tyler:Yeah, Okay, this was one of our choices between this and that movie.
Travis:Yeah, but we figured we'd go with this one because it's the 30th anniversary this year.
Tyler:Yeah, and another note thing about Sally. You might recognize her voice. It's Catherine O'Hara. She was the mom in Beetlejuice and the mom from the first two Home Alone Yep. I think this is give her a different kind of character, other than the mom, yeah exactly.
Travis:But, yeah, great performance from her. We see that they, that he's trying to like keep her back at the house and she's like, no, I don't wanna do that. But she's also a, basically a doll. That's like full of leaves and sewn together, and so she just undoes the stitch in her arm and so that way she can get away from him. And then we get into Jack's Lament and this is kind of the musical version of like, oh, like. Every year it's the same. I'm bored with everything. I want something new. Great song, great visuals in this. I love the like little, like curly, curvy mountain that he's standing on with the silhouette against the moon. Like the moon is huge too.
Tyler:Yeah, which is actually the image that is the poster for this film, and also the VHS tape Yep, yep, as in the clamshell.
Travis:Oh yeah, those good old giant plastic clamshell VHS cases.
Tyler:Yeah, and there is another non-thin about Jack the voice. Jack actually has two voices, yeah, one is speaking and one is singing.
Travis:And this was pretty common for a lot of animated movies back then and prior correct.
Tyler:Yeah, basically Aladdin did that. Yeah, and the speaking voice of Jack is Chris Sarandon, who you remember as Prince Humperdink from Princess Bride and he was also the who does he play in Child's Play?
Travis:Chris Humperdink?
Tyler:No, Chris Sarandon.
Travis:Oh, prince Humperdink, Chris Sarandon, I think he's the cop who eventually is helping the mom once Chuckie attacks him. Oh yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I did watch that one this last Halloween, like on Halloween. So if I'm trying to piece together who looks like Prince Humperdink, it's that guy, I think.
Tyler:Yeah, and the singing voice is composer Danny Elfman.
Travis:Yes, yeah, famed composer Danny Elfman, also the singer from Oingo Boingo, but yeah, has he done all? Or at least he's done most of Tim Burton's movies? But yeah, great composer as well. A few other things too, Not just Tim Burton stuff.
Tyler:He did. He worked with Barry Sonnenfeld on Men in Black.
Travis:Yes, correct.
Tyler:And Matt Groening on the Simpsons.
Travis:Yes, oh yeah. That's probably the most famous piece of music that most people would recognize as the Simpsons theme song. Yeah. Yep, All right. So anything else you wanna add on the Jacks-Lament song in the cemetery yeah it's.
Tyler:I think it's pretty unique and nice to, because there's gonna be a total of. There's gonna be more songs to come.
Travis:Oh, yeah, oh. And then anyone keeping track of the Nightmare Revisited version that one is done by the All-American Rejects. So after the song is done he kinda heads out into the woods. The whole time he was singing. Sally was again kinda like watching him from afar and everything. So she heads back to her house with Dr Finkelstein. This is where you find out that he made her basically you know Finkelstein, frankenstein and that type of thing and he sews her arm back on. You find out that she always poisons him. So she can get away for the night.
Tyler:Yeah, Deadly.
Travis:Nightshade, Yep, the Deadly Nightshade. You slipped me wore off, Sally, All right. Yeah, Yep, that's how you know that. Let's see. Oh yeah, we see. We got back to Jack walking through the woods with Zero Pretty funny gag where he takes one of his own ribs off and throws it for Zero to catch it. You know cause he's a dog.
Tyler:Oh and well known fact, you know how Zero appeared a transparent. They did this beam split effect, kinda similar, like a filmmaker's equivalent to the Pepper's ghost effect Got it. In the Haunted Mansion. Best example of that effect was the ballroom.
Travis:Yes, the ballroom in the Haunted Mansion right, but Pepper's ghost effect that's been around for like since the Houdini days, pretty much right.
Tyler:Yeah, and really popular under the use of all the Imagineers at Disney.
Travis:Yes, All right, moving on. So Jack finds the trees that we saw in. Oh wait, no, I skipped a scene. Yeah, the bit of the mayor, yes, so we see it's the next morning after Halloween. Everyone's all like worn out and just kinda hanging out. The mayor is heading up to Jack's house to like start planning next year's Halloween, literally November 1st. He's already like worried about it, which I guess, if you think of Halloween as the equivalent of Christmas, then in Santa mythology Santa's working since December 26 basically to start next Christmas, correct?
Travis:Yeah yeah, so the mayor's heading up there. One interesting thing about him is that his face turns completely around 180. And it's basically the joke behind that is that he is a two-faced politician.
Tyler:Correct Basically Tim's satire on politicians.
Travis:Yeah, and he does even have a line in there, which I think is really funny, because he's knocking on the door and he's like Jack, you home? And he's like Jack, please, I'm only an elected official, I can't make these decisions by myself.
Tyler:And he's all worried and he ends up falling down the stairs and the zombie jazz band basically tells him that he's not home and he's been home all night and, oddly enough, with Haunted Mansion Holiday, you see the band out the window in the portrait gallery, I mean the portrait hallway after the stretching room.
Travis:Yes, and that's still part of the queue right. That's before the actual ride starts.
Tyler:Yeah, before you step into the doom buggies yes.
Travis:Okay. So now Jack stumbles upon the trees that we saw in the beginning. This is where we see the. There's a Christmas tree door, there's a turkey door for Thanksgiving, there's an Easter egg for Easter, which would lead to a gag later. Yes, exactly. But immediately mesmerized by the Christmas tree and just starts walking slowly towards it, he's like what is this place? This is something new, which is what he was looking for. That's why he sang a whole song about being bored with Halloween. Is that he's looking for something new, kind of is hypnotized by this door, walks closer to it, he opens it, or it comes open on its own.
Travis:Yeah he opens it, that's right he opens, it turns one of the Christmas balls on the tree and then it's, that's the door knob and then ends up getting sucked in. And then this is where we get. He ends up in Christmas town. He's in the snow, he lands in the snow. We could look down the hill and there's this like beautiful Christmas village, and this is where we Very Dr.
Travis:Yes, yeah, very Grinch-esque, but this is where we get our third song. What's this? Yeah, and one thing that's great about this one is that it's he's just obviously amazed by this new concept, this new holiday that he's never heard of, and but there's a lot of like jokes within the lyrics about like, oh, there's children throwing snowballs instead of throwing heads, and just a lot of like. We get like the weirdness of Halloween, halloween, but said like it's normal, you know. Yeah.
Travis:There's a lot of stuff in this that's a very Adam's family, adam's family, like bad as good type stuff.
Tyler:Yeah, yeah, and I'm surprised that Timbernden direct that movie.
Travis:Yeah but I think those turned out perfect the way they were with Barry Sonnenfeld.
Tyler:Yeah, and the great acting in those two movies. Our definitive Gomez is always going to be Raul Julia. Yeah. Aka Aaron Fingal. Wow, that is-.
Travis:Because our real deep cut.
Tyler:Yeah, but for all you mischies listening or and or watching, you know what we're talking about.
Travis:Yeah, for those who don't know, he's referencing the show Mystery Science Theater 3000, where it's two robots and a human watching bad movies and you can see like the silhouette, like you're watching that with them in the theater. Great show, love it.
Tyler:Yeah, and the episode in question is over drawn at the memory bank.
Travis:Yeah, so one of Raul Julia's last films, not his last one, cause that was Street Fighter, correct? Yeah. So one of his last films was a Adam's family values. But so before that, yeah.
Travis:Okay, timeline aside, a movie that he did besides these other like high grossing, great, well done movies I'm not saying that Street Fighter was well done, but it was very popular. Yeah Was a made for TV, shot on video tape movie called Overdrawn at the Memory Bank and it's Very confusing, very bonkers. It's. Basically he gets like sucked into Casablanca at some point and it's really weird. But we're not doing an episode on that, we're doing it on Nightmare for Christmas, so we get the. What's this song? Do you have anything you wanted to add on that?
Tyler:Yeah, it's basically Danny Elfman trying to make a modern version of this, a ton twister song by Gilberton Sullivan called Modern Major General Got it, and what musical is that from? The Pirates of?
Travis:Pirates of Penzance. Yeah.
Travis:That one. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I've never seen that, but I know that title is just banging around up here. The Nightmare Revisited Soundtrack version is done by the band Flyleaf. So at the end of his song, he sees, he sees the title of the town or the name, title, the, the name, the town's name. He sees a sign says Christmas Town. We see a door open and we see the silhouette of Santa. He's looking thick with two C's and everything and he's like so he's like super intrigued now, like OK, like this place is great, how do I get in on this? We see back at Halloween Town, everyone's like the mayor is about to start this search party to look for Jack. Oh yeah, we see that Sally is going to poison Dr Finkelstein again. She's making a soup for him and she's putting in deadly nightshade. She's using Frog's Breath to mask the odor. Correct?
Tyler:Yeah, but it's very bitter and I can assume, similar to any muses. I believe that the smell is supposed to be like a scented candle that you left burning too long. Yeah she does say. Hence my bitter.
Travis:Yeah, she's, yeah, she pours it in. She's like, oh, it's bitter. And then she's looking for the worms wart to kind of like even out the smell. So she gives it to him. He's immediately suspicious. He's like, ok, I smell the Frog's Breath, like, so that makes it suspicious because so I'm not going to eat anything until you try it. And she knocks the spoon out of his hands so that way she could do a switcheroo with a trick spoon, with a trick spoon that has holes in it, and so she pretends to eat it and he's like, oh and the and the soup in the bowl.
Tyler:That's actually a disc to deal with the stop motion.
Travis:Oh, I see.
Tyler:Yeah, there's little hints of detail and how the mouth movements of these characters were done. How they did it for Jack was so much replacement heads with different expressions and mouth movements, and for some of it they did replacement masks because of the hair, and for the mayor they had replacement eyes and mouths for each side.
Travis:Ok, and each expression as well. Yes, yeah, because I think, like in a lot of like older stop motion, you would just you would have to mold the entire face correct. Yeah, yeah, like stuff like Rudolph and things like that.
Tyler:Or or going by Will Vinton or Ardhamn Heck, even as far as Ray Harryhausen or a really deep tub well as O'Brien.
Travis:Yeah, what did? Well as O'Brien do.
Tyler:This 90 year old movie about a giant ape, oh King Kong. Oh yeah, yeah.
Travis:Oh yeah, that's her 90 this year. Yeah. Yeah, all right. So I think my favorite part of that scene, though, where she's given him the soup, is how he opens the top of his head and scratches his brain, like while he's thinking.
Tyler:Oh they, even there is this. There was actually a toy line of for Christmas made by Tomy when the movie came out in 93. Yeah, and the bit where the, where the head opens up to see the brain that's actually introverted into the figure. Oh yeah.
Travis:So we cut to back to the townspeople. They've pretty much like given up on finding Jack, like they looked everywhere. And then they can hear zero barking. And then they're like, oh, like that's zero, like he's back. And then here comes Jack on a snowmobile, pretty much dragging a bunch of Christmas stuff. Because I don't know, did he buy it, did he steal it all? Like what? Where did he get all that? And but he's like they're like, where have you been? He's like I'll call a town meeting, I'll tell everyone about it like immediately. And so town meeting starts. He starts singing a song. I think it's just called the town meeting song. Yeah.
Travis:This is not one of my favorite. This is probably my least favorite on the Nightmare Revisited and forget who does the does it? It's like Sparkle Horse or something like that. It's like super slow and weird and it's like it's one of the better songs in this in the movie. But just I didn't like.
Tyler:Yeah, basically just listen to the Listen to the original soundtrack and nothing against them.
Travis:I'm sure those people that like that version is just just not for me. But basically he's singing this song is like telling everybody about Christmas town. They're just not getting it because they're too like Halloween coated and like.
Tyler:There's this one character, that this Harlequin demon with a 360 degree mouth. Yeah, I think that's. I'm not sure where that came from, but I think that's more of a Tim Burton original creature. Yeah. There's always, like some Tim Burton, original creatures.
Travis:Oh yeah, but it's like it's based off of something, though Like all of them are original, but he kind of did his own spin on stuff, because like there was like a thing, such a thing as Harlequin demons, but he added like the 360 mouth, right, yeah, yeah, because there's a guy that's just like a devil guy, kind of like in the cantina scene in Star Wars. There's just randomly a devil and a werewolf.
Tyler:Yeah, that is, if you're watching the original on altered version with a werewolf.
Travis:Yes. So yeah, they're just not like getting the concept of, because they're just like, oh, like that sounds scary. And he's like, no, like it's not scary. But he's like, you know, singing it and stuff, and he's like finally like, all right, I'll give him what they want, like he kind of says that to himself and then he like starts talking about Santa, but he like describes him in a way that's going to get them all like razzed up, like, oh, like he's this big, monstrous, beastly man, like covered in red and stuff like that, and they call him Sandy Claws.
Tyler:Yeah, and anyone that part of the song were Jack wins towards the camera. I saw it in 3D and because of me wearing the three glasses, it was one of those annual rereleases that I started doing. We saw number four Christmas in 3D and I saw Jack coming out of the screen. Yep.
Travis:He's coming out of his cage and doing just fine. This was back when, like, 3d was huge, like everyone was doing 3D, everything. They made 3D TVs, 3d Blu-rays, and then it all died. So I mean, obviously there are still movies that get released in 3D. I think the last Guardians was still in 3D, correct? And then you know Avatar 2. That I made sure to purchase a 3D IMAX for that, because before that that was the only one that was ever fully worth it, in my opinion, like, but yeah, did you enjoy it in 3D? I didn't get to see it in 3D.
Tyler:Yeah, you need experience to see it in the theater.
Travis:Yeah, I would like to see the movie in the theater. Maybe not in 3D, but I would like to see it in theater if I get the chance. So we see Sally getting locked in a room by Dr Finkelstein again, and oh, we forgot.
Tyler:We cut to Jack in bed and you see him with different books and one of those books was A Christmas Carol. Okay, and oddly enough in the town, meaning you see the Grim Raper. Yeah, but the Grim Raper also. Some people think he also doubled as the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come.
Travis:Oh, okay. So it's like a little nod to other Christmas properties.
Tyler:Yeah, and another. But there's also a Disney nod. You see the old hat. You see an old hat holding an apple, and that's supposed to be the queen from Snow White in her hat form. Got it.
Travis:All right. So now we see him getting. Why is she's getting locked up? What happens in that scene?
Tyler:I think he is basically recovered from getting poisoned.
Travis:Oh, that's right, Cause he's like has like an ice pack on his head and everything. But basically right after he locks her in the room, jack shows up and he wants to borrow some lab equipment from him. Yeah, cause he wants to do some experiments to like figure out Christmas. And then we soon get like a montage of him doing these different experiments and it's like really funny, like just the things he's trying to figure out. Like he's puts like a hollyberry and a microscope and like crushes up a Christmas ornament into some like boiling liquid and it starts glowing green and he's like it's like oh, that's an interesting reaction, but what does it mean? You know, he's just like.
Tyler:And originally the that montage was going to be a bit longer because there was going to be one experiment where he lights a candle and then does this two-sided chalk drawing of two different Santa's and one. The other one had like crap claws.
Travis:Oh, okay, putting the claws in sandy claws.
Tyler:Yeah, nope, and the music was different. It used a music from the witches of Eastwick.
Travis:Oh Now, was that in the movie, or is that just for the tests? It was a temp music, got it. The witches of Eastwick? Was that Danny Elfman?
Tyler:No, that was composed by John Williams.
Travis:Okay, my favorite composer. So yeah, he's doing these experiments and stuff. Sally wants to help out, but she's locked in a room. So she you know, like most people does, she makes a care package, jumps out of the.
Travis:Scare package, scare package. Good one Jumps out of the 40 story window but she's a doll that can just and all her limbs come off and she just, you know, sells herself back together and heads over to Jack's house, sends the basket up. Not really sure what he's going to do with any of those things, because it's basically like a bottle that he opens and like a smoke butterfly comes out and then, like a fish skeleton and and resin, I don't know what he's going to, how he's going to figure out Christmas with that stuff. But then we get the song for Jack's obsession right. Yeah.
Travis:Yeah, this is another one that I didn't like in the Nightmare Revisited version, but love it in the movie. Yeah.
Travis:Yeah, and it's like the townspeople are singing like okay, like something's wrong with Jack, and he's just like singing about how he's like so close to figuring out Christmas, but it's like all the pieces are there but I can't put it together and at the end he comes to the he has an epiphany and he's like, I got it Like and like. Opens the window and announces to the whole town. He says this year Christmas will be ours.
Tyler:Yeah, and the recipe from the previous scene, from the scene prior, was shown outside, at the exterior of the mansion, when you get in line for a Haunted Mansion holiday. Yeah. And the part where Jack envisions himself as Santa. That's in the portrait hallway after the stretch room and that's one of the changing portraits in that overlay.
Travis:Yes, so we get a scene where everyone's in line at the town hall so they can get a job, like Jack's giving out jobs to every member of Halloween town. Then, oh no, I missed something. So after Sally gives him the basket and she's heading back to her house, she picks up like a dandelion type thing, right? Yeah.
Travis:And then she has this premonition where it changes into a beautiful Christmas tree and then it bursts into flames. So it's kind of like okay, like she reads it as like this Christmas thing's a bad idea and so on, right. Yeah.
Tyler:And.
Travis:I think it's possible, lana, come on.
Tyler:Is this the recording?
Travis:Yeah, but I can cut that part out. And in case I did forget to cut it out, that was my cat making noise and because she's all freaked out, that all this equipment's down here probably. But all right. So she has the premonition and she interprets it as this like Christmas thing's a bad idea and it's gonna go wrong. Basically it's gonna go up in flames, to be literal. Yeah.
Tyler:But, uh yeah, it's, uh, yeah, everyone's getting an assignment. And then we get introduced to the most, uh, opportunistic trio that this other representation of Halloween, the more mischief night side of Halloween, yeah, and what do you mean by that? You know the, the kind of, you know the kind of troublemakers.
Travis:Oh, okay, so it's the trick part of trick or treat, basically. Yeah. So it's uh, this is where we are introduced to lock, shock and barrel voiced by Paul Rubins, the late great Paul Rubins.
Tyler:Pee Wee Herman, no master. And flight of the navigator and RX24 from the original version of Star Tours.
Travis:Yeah, Um. So yeah, Pee Wee Herman, we got Catherine O'Hara doing double duty voices and Danny Elfman. Yep. Yeah.
Travis:So these are little trick or treaters. Um, one's dressed as a witch, one's a skeleton and one just has like a scary devil mask, right, yeah, yep, and their job is to. Um, well, when he's, when Jack's giving them the job, he does warn them. He says, leave oogie boogie out of this, and then, but we don't know what their job is yet. And so, as they're walking away, this is where, um, we get the, uh, the song that tells what their job is. And they're supposed to kidnap Santa Claus. Yeah, song number six Yep, kidnap the sandy claws. And this is my favorite one from Nightmare Revisited. It's great in the movie, but they, there's a cover by the uh new metal band corn. That is like way better than it needs to be.
Tyler:Yeah, and we uh get a little hints of this film's villain.
Travis:Oh yeah. So then this is kind of introducing the main villain, Oogie Boogie. We get tiny hints of him, and but it's basically just them singing about all the things that he'll do to Santa Claus once they give him.
Tyler:Yeah, but we do see a hint of him at the beginning, where he's the shadow of the in the moon.
Travis:Oh yeah. So in the this is Halloween song there's a silhouette on the moon and he sings I am the shadow of the moon at night, filling your dreams to the brim with fright. And it's Oogie Boogie's silhouette, yeah, yeah. And then, um, what I love about this song is that, like all, like how dark they are and like what they're like singing about, like they're like kidnapped. The Santa Sandy Claus beat him with a stick, lock him up for 90 years, see what makes him tick, chop him into bits, like, uh, all kinds of stuff. It's, it's, it's crazy, it's so like dark and twisted, but like in a funny way.
Tyler:Yeah, and the fact that they have a walking bathtub, oh yeah, so at the end like yeah they're uh you know, jumping the walk in bathtub.
Travis:Let's take that to the Christmas town. So yeah, they head off into the woods and they're walking bathtub.
Tyler:And then we come back to the silhouette of Udi and you see some dice and then a snake comes out in. That is the, and it kind of resembles the smaller snake in Beetlejuice. Oh yeah, and that's one of two references to that movie.
Travis:Yep, um, let's see. Uh, we get a scene of Sally trying to warn Jack about, um, her premonition. He's just like, he's just too like worked up, uh in it and um, but he's like, hey, like I have a job for you, like everything's going to be fine, don't worry about it. By the way, I got a job for you. I want you to make my sandy claws outfit so, and he has it all sketched out and everything, and she agrees, but she's still like, okay, like I don't, I'm still not sure about this, but like I'll do it. Um, uh, is it the same scene where lock shotgun barrel come back, or is this? Yeah, it is.
Travis:So they come back um with what they think is Santa Claus. They open the bag and, uh, the Easter Bunny jumps out. Yeah.
Travis:Oops, yep. And he's like that's not Santa Claus, like like I'm looking for the guy Like did you go through the door? And Laura, they're like oh, we went through the door. He said which door? There's more than one. They're like Santa. Santa Claus is in the one shape like this and he holds up a Christmas cookie of a tree and they're like are arguing Like I told you that was the wrong one, and then so they go back and leave again. Right, yeah, now this is where we do.
Tyler:We actually go back to Dr Finklstein and he is actually making a replacement for Sally.
Travis:Oh, that's right. And he's like, oh, this one's not going to run out on me. And he's also like making one that looks like him, like with like the duck mouth and everything. Yeah, yeah. And then this is where we get the next song making Christmas.
Tyler:Yep, the one of the bigger songs of the movie. If it's not, this is Halloween, then it's this one.
Travis:Yeah, I'd say this is like the this like, if you know, so night before Christmas it's the blending of two holidays. We get the main Halloween song and this is our main Christmas song and great song both. In both versions of the soundtrack it's done by Rise Against and the Nightmare Revisited. Super good, this whole sequence. We see how like distorted their version of Halloween is because they're making these toys, but they're making everything scary because that's all they know, you know. Yeah.
Travis:And they're just getting everything wrong, like they're making Dr Winklesigns, making Reindeer, but they're all skeletons. Yeah.
Tyler:You know, and then the vampire teddy bear. You see that throughout the mansion. Oh in a Haunted Mansion holiday. Yes, in the place of the Raven.
Travis:Yeah, Cause there's a. In the regular Haunted Mansion there's a Raven that you see throughout the ride, and some people say that it's supposed to represent the ghost host in a way.
Tyler:Yeah, and it was also a reference to the Raven by Edgar Allan Poe. Yep, gotta have that got the tour.
Travis:Yep. Famous Baltimore Ravens player, edgar Allan Poe. You're talking about the poet. Yes, I'm talking about the poet. Okay, so at this point in the rewatch, when I was taking notes, I fell asleep because I was exhausted, so I might be missing stuff after this, cause this is where my notes have ended. So towards the end of the song is when they show up with the real Santa, right.
Tyler:Yeah, it's basically at the end. Yeah, at the end of the song.
Travis:And they're celebrating.
Tyler:They show up, we got Santa and he was originally gonna be voiced by Vincent Price, but it was towards the end of his life.
Travis:Okay.
Tyler:But they got Edward Ivory.
Travis:Oh, okay, so it's the same voice that's doing the narration at the very.
Tyler:Yeah, it's basically someone the behind the scenes guys found he's a local guy from the Bay area. Oh, okay, because most of the production was done in San Francisco, got it?
Travis:So there's also where, like, all a lot of Pixar stuff's done up there, yeah, and all like main house Disney animations done in perfect yeah.
Tyler:And some of the citizens of Halloween Town were voiced by Joe Ramft.
Travis:Oh, okay, and he did a bunch of Pixar voices. He was Heimlich right.
Tyler:Yeah, heimlich landing the binoculars in Toy Story, weezy in Toy Story 2.
Travis:But he passed away though, yeah 2000 cents after Cars Got it, and it's at the end of Cars that there's the card about. Like yeah. And then there's the film Joe Ramft yeah, okay. So yeah, santa's there, he's all tied up. Jack's like don't worry, I got this. And then he gets carted off to Oogie Boogie. And this is where we get the Oogie Boogie song right.
Tyler:Yeah, but before that, before Santa gets carted off, he realizes something about him is missing. And then he realizes what's the heck? And goes of course that's what I'm missing, because the only thing I'm missing on him was the hat.
Travis:So then he just takes Santa's hat, correct? Yeah. Yeah, all right, you got to pretty much carry on the story part now. Yeah, and then I'll interject in.
Tyler:Okay, we fully get introduced to Oogie Boogie, and boy is he quite a show.
Travis:Yeah, he's basically just a giant like living potato sack is what he looks like.
Tyler:Yeah, and voiced by Ken Page, and I can't believe I'm seeing this. You remember him as the Gator from Altogs. Go to Heaven.
Travis:Yes, we all remember him as that. That movie I barely remember seeing, but I know exists and I know I've seen.
Tyler:Yeah and and this, uh yeah, he basically typical villain song about describing himself and basically sort of this cab Callaway kind of guy.
Travis:Yeah, this is a bit of a hidey-ho man, I think that's what. That's what cab Callaway is famous for, the hidey-hidey-hidey-hidey-hidey-hidey-hidey Like that type of big band music basically and that's kind of his musical number is kind of like that yeah, very like 30s, like jazz influenced big bands like yeah, come by the old man on the mountain in like flyshark cartoon. Yeah, speaking of cab Callaway, he was in one of those shorts.
Tyler:Yeah. Yep. And also certainly back to Disney, this uh and cab Callaway. There was this bit of animation Eric Goldberg did of the did of the genie in Aladdin, when he was doing the cab Callaway thing. Okay. So we get then and it turns out it is Christmas Eve and they're gonna set off, but sadly it used a fog juice to try to prevent the vision from happening, got it?
Travis:Yeah, so she does try to sabotage it, but because she knows that it's gonna turn out bad, you know, and no one's listening to her. So, yeah, she does fog juice. But just like in Rudolph, the Red Nose Reindeer, here comes zero as the Deus Ex Machina of this sabotaging.
Tyler:Christmas, and then they set off yeah, so they got zero's Red Nose.
Travis:It's kind of light the way and he's at the front of the pack with the Skeleton Reindeer Jack takes off and then we cut to and this leads to an, the next song. Mm-hmm.
Tyler:Sally song. Yeah. And then this is one of those songs that kind of it almost feels very soothing, almost like a taking a breather.
Travis:Yeah, it's a very, it's totally very different from some of the other ones. It's kind of there with Jack's lament a little bit, but a little bit more stripped down. The Night Member visited done by Evanescence's Amy Lee is beautiful, and so is the original too. Yeah.
Tyler:Yeah, and then we cut back to Jack, and then we get our third world of this movie, the real world.
Travis:Yes, so we get to see Jack doing Christmas out in the real world and we slowly start to see the results of his version of Christmas and just the kids getting scared and terrorized by the pair, by the presence, and the parents getting terrorized by the presence and the decorations.
Tyler:Yeah, the sharpen head and the giant snake. Both are references to Beetlejuice Yep. Yeah. All it's missing is a Harry Belafonte song, whether it be the banana boats on or jumping the line.
Travis:Yep, yep. So yeah, do we cut back, kind of cut back and forth between yeah that and Santa with Oogie Boogie, yeah, okay.
Tyler:Yeah, and then the way Sally unstitched her leg to seduce Oogie.
Travis:Oh yeah, she's kind of like, holds her leg out to like, kind of like. But it's.
Tyler:But then you see her hands go down the rope and then cover Santa's mouth to keep him quiet and then points him to the direction, to where she is.
Travis:Yeah, yeah. Somehow she gets tipped off to the fact that Santa the real Santa is in danger and goes and tries to save him and, like does a pretty good job, at ends up getting captured herself, correct?
Tyler:Yeah, and also the fact that that Oogie Boogie has an incredible inhaling power.
Travis:Oh, yeah, he basically like Kirby's her right yeah.
Tyler:Well, just said her in as a gamer. And speaking of games, mm-hmm. Well, this particular game got you excited because this was featured in it. Hence, when I'm holding right here, yes, kingdom Hearts, and I remember you're getting excited for that with the commercials when it aired in 2000, when those commercials are in 2002, especially when you see Jack Stillington on screen, yeah, and for how excited I got.
Travis:I've still never played those games, but that's because now I just know how like convoluted the plot is, the plot is and things like that.
Tyler:It's very simple. The first one's pretty simple because, after all, it is a journey where you never know who you run into next, and that was the tagline for the first one when it came on on the PS2.
Travis:Yes, so it was basically Square Enix type characters. You know, it's not Not just. It was kind of like touted as Final Fantasy meets Disney, which is pretty much is, but it's not direct Final Fantasy characters, correct.
Tyler:Yeah, there are some Final Fantasy cameos, mostly from like seven and a little bit of eight, okay, in the first one, and we don't get like stuff from characters from like nine and ten and ten two and Kingdom Hearts two.
Travis:Yeah, no one from Final Fantasy. One through six, thirty nine, whatever their number. They're on now.
Tyler:Yeah, nobody from like the early 2D ones. Yeah, with the exception of one from six yeah, yeah.
Travis:So yeah, so Jack's causing all this havoc in the real world. People are starting to catch on. We see, like a police dispatcher, 911 dispatcher, like getting all these calls about like presents going crazy and stuff like that, and they're like OK, like something. Like first it's like all right, whatever you say, and then thinks it's like a prank. And then there's like OK, wait, if I'm getting this many calls and something's up. And we see like a military base getting armed up to shoot him out of the sky and there's like search lights and like they you know, they fire this like giant artillery shell at him and he thinks that they're like celebrating him, they're like they're thanking us for doing such a good job, and then like gets like obliterated by yeah, it's, it's insane.
Travis:Yeah, and then like they, they see they can see everything happening in Halloween town. They're like watching it, like somehow through Halloween magic, I guess.
Tyler:Yeah, similar to, like the, similar to the pig and black cauldron.
Travis:OK, I wouldn't know about that, still haven't seen it. But yeah, so they see him get shot down and the mayor is like making an announcement that that Jack's dead. But you know, it's kind of funny, because how can you be dead if you're a literal skeleton?
Tyler:And that comes into play later, when, when we in the later scene.
Travis:Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about. So is this where we get? Yeah? We get the poor Jack right, yeah, where he ended up in a graveyard.
Travis:Yeah, so he's like literally, like it's very cinematic and like beautiful shot of him, like literally in the arms of an angel, sarah McLaughlin style, like just kind of like limp and this like statue of an angel, for as part of a tomb, is holding him up and he starts singing the song poor Jack, just like, oh like I messed everything up, and just like with some of the other songs, it's him working through his thoughts and feelings in order to get to the epiphany where he's going to save the day, and this time actually save the day as opposed to before, where he makes everything worse. Yeah, and then another good song done by plain white teas and the of hey, delilah fame. Hey there, delilah on the Nightmare, revisited version.
Tyler:Yeah, but yeah, and then, and we also did the fact that all graveyards in the real world lead back to Halloween town.
Travis:Yeah, cuz he just full-on opens a tomb and just like runs back to Halloween town like, oh, all right, so I guess that's how you get there, just like, if you wander long enough in one of the holiday towns, you'll eventually get to the forest with all the different trees.
Tyler:Yeah, basically the yeah, it's very insane.
Travis:It's kind of one of those like logic things that's like don't don't think too much about it.
Tyler:Just accept it. Yeah, just just keep your suspension of disbelief.
Travis:Yeah, exactly as you should with most fantasy movies.
Tyler:Yeah, unless you're, unless it's an M Nye Shalom movie. Yeah with the ultimate twist.
Travis:Yeah, I mean it's, but that's not to say that you can't like keep the rules of a reality within a certain reality, like if you're three Lord of the Rings deep and then they just all of a sudden change something that doesn't make sense within that reality, then that's like where you can't be, like oh well, it's fantasy, you know, you don't have that excuse, cuz if you establish a reality you have to stick with those rules. Yeah, you know, kind of like when they're just throwing new new things in Star Wars and stuff like that. I'm not gonna be too harsh on new Star Wars, but not not a fan of Rise of Skywalker, yeah, but I think people are way too hard on Last Jedi. I think that's the best of the new movies.
Travis:Besides the best of the new sequels, not Rogue One's the best new movie. Yeah, in my opinion.
Tyler:Yeah, and, and we get to. Yeah, we jacked somehow made it back to Halloween Town and we come to the climax.
Travis:Yes, so he gets back to Halloween Town. It's time to save Santa and save Christmas. So he gets to, you know already figures out like, okay, like Boogie Boogie probably is part of this and I shouldn't trust those kids.
Tyler:But because you could tell earlier in the movie, they had their fingers crossed.
Travis:Yeah, so how? How does he end up saving them? I know the ultimate end, like how the reveal of what Boogie Boogie really is. But I forget Jax.
Tyler:Jack, basically uh roll in that. Yeah, he just uh switched places between uh Santa and Sally with himself. Mmm. And, uh, re-elotated them somewhere else within the lair. And then, and then Udie is surprised going what? And then pulls the thing down and then sees Jack.
Travis:Oh yeah.
Tyler:And then we did this line Jack, they said you were dead, you must be double dead?
Travis:Oh yeah, that's that's what you're referencing before. Like Skeleton can't be dead. Um so, uh, at some point during the escape, uh, a thread from uh, oogie Boogie's potato sack, burlap skin gets caught in a fan, or something like that, right?
Tyler:Yeah, and then uh, Jack pulled the thread.
Travis:Yes, and reveals that beneath the like burlap skin is just millions of bugs, so he's just like a bunch of bugs.
Tyler:Yeah, and the fact that all those bugs are falling and it's in stop motion is insane. Yeah. And this is the same year as Jurassic Park. Yeah.
Travis:Which I mean that's. I mean that is a great example of good visual effects. Jurassic Park, you know? Yeah, because I'd say like what's like a bad movie, like bad special effects movie from 1993?.
Tyler:I don't know. Uh, some people say uh, super Mario Bros, but yeah, Some people.
Travis:I know you love that movie, I know that.
Tyler:Yep, because that came out months before Jurassic Park.
Travis:Yeah, so, um yeah, oogie Boogie is just a bunch of bugs and he crumbles into pieces. Uh yeah, impressive. Uh, special effects of doing falling objects in stop motion.
Tyler:is is incredible, oh and there was behind the scenes wise. There was an alternate version of the identity of Oogie Boogie, which was that was really Dr Frantlstein, and it was a Scooby-Doo kind of thing.
Travis:Oh, okay, so they would have pulled off his potato sack head.
Tyler:Actually it uh, unraveled, revealing, and it was, and Dr Frantlstein was using his hand to puppeteer the mouth. Oh okay, so he's in like a Oogie Boogie mech, basically, yeah basically, yeah, and that was in the original version, but Tim didn't like that one. If you've seen, uh, the holiday movies that made us Mm.
Travis:Okay, that's the Netflix, uh, special. Yeah.
Tyler:Yeah, when they did a whole episode based on that. Oh, okay.
Travis:So, um, yeah, so Santa's rescued. Um, Santa does like he thanks Jack, but also like scolds him like what were you thinking Like, all right, I guess I gotta go fix Christmas now and he does correct, yeah, um. But in order but as a thank you to Jack, he gives a little Christmas magic to the residents of Halloween town and makes it snow there.
Tyler:Yeah, and that's part of the uh, our next, uh, our final song in the movie called the finale.
Travis:Yeah, it's the finale and it's. It's basically like a reprise medley of a bunch of the different songs, because we get a little bit of the the residents saying what's this, what's this about the snow falling. We get a little bit of the this is Halloween, this is Halloween.
Tyler:The last part being basically Sally's song.
Travis:Yes, but as a duet, with the two of them singing together and they're like hey, also like sorry for not believing you. Also, now I love you.
Tyler:Yeah and uh. If you've been on Haunted Mansion holiday in 2001, eight or 2002, I cannot get the image of the snow covered spiral hill with the three hitchhiking ghosts, oh, but you do see a lot of shock and barrel in the forefront.
Travis:Okay.
Tyler:But wait a minute, Is there? Is there a ghostly present in between us? Nope Cause I don't know how to do visual effects, that's okay, we just uh, we just assume it's there because we had to keep our, uh, keep the Haunted Mansion references.
Travis:Yeah, and the ghost will follow you home. Do you have any final thoughts on? Oh, yeah, um. The finale song is done by in the Night Mirror visited, done by the band shiny toy guns, who I did get to see live. Uh, during their like peak, during their one hit wonder peak, yeah, um, but yeah. Do you have anything else to add on this movie?
Tyler:This is a good uh good movie to watch, whether it be on Halloween or Christmas.
Travis:Yeah, You're pretty much like fine watching this from September to January, September 1st to January 1st, pretty much, yeah, yeah, it's uh, it's on brand for that whole time of year. Um, I will say I do agree with Ryan Gosling that the Disneyland, uh, Haunted Mansion holiday should only be there during Christmas, because real Haunted Mansion is would should be there for Halloween, you know cause. It's scary, it's, it's ghosts and stuff Like why. Why is the most Halloween ride closed, like not itself during Halloween? What? What are your thoughts on that? Do you agree or do you think it should be the way it is where it's?
Tyler:I certainly agree. Yeah, haunted Mansion holiday is good, but I wish it didn't take up a whole chunk of the year.
Travis:Yeah, Yep, um so yeah. Any final thoughts on the movie though.
Tyler:Give it a watch and you now you will know what happens when two holidays meet. You might get a trick or you might get a holiday treat.
Travis:All right. Well, thank you, guys for watching or listening. Um, well, like, the last few episodes have been on video. Um, thank you for new new followers in this new era. Um, but continue to listen If you prefer to do that. Like I know, I do most of my podcasts the audio. But, hey, uh, there's a new market and I'd like to be a part of that too. Uh, but follow the show at movies. They're pretty good. On Instagram, um, also follow us on YouTube, uh, and stick around for the next episode. Uh, because it is going to be Christmas for the month of December, obviously. Um, so, yeah, stick around. Thanks for watching, Thanks for listening, and have a good December. Happy holidays, merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, thanks.
